HASTE BOCK? (ZOCH VERLAG) (Reglamento)

[Speedro]

¡Pánico en los pastos! El rebaño de ovejas se ha vuelto loco. Roger, un hermoso
carnero, hace que las damas ovejas vuelvan la mirada. Shawn, el esquilador de ovejas, siempre atento al negocio, merodea junto al prado ansioso por esquilar la lana blanca. En consecuencia, las ovejas no saben hacia donde correr primero. ¿Podrás conducirlas a los mejores lugares del pasto?

Traducción de la versión alemana de Zoch Verlag. La versión alemana contiene las suficientes diferencias en mecanicas y jugabilidad como para precisar una traducción distinta de la de Shear Panic.

Saludos  

[Arracataflán]

Ahórrame el esfuerzo de comparar ambas versiones, anda, y dime en qué se diferencian.

[Speedro]

Ahórrame el esfuerzo de comparar ambas versiones, anda, y dime en qué se diferencian.

Uno de los muchos sobre el tema de bgg...  supongo que sabes ingles ¿o te traduzco algo?


(Post original de Doug Orleans - publicado en BGG)

1. There is no "resolving the flock"-- there's nothing to prevent the flock from separating. This gets rid of one of the fiddliest and most confusing parts of the rules, and it somewhat reduces the chaos by making the result of one move a bit less drastic.

2. There is a board, and you can't move beyond its edge. This is probably necessary to deal with the flock being allowed to separate.

3. When you do a Lamb Slam, you can push through multiple empty spaces if there's another sheep on the other side. See Figures 4.2 and 4.6. This seems kind of unintuitive, but again it's probably necessary to deal with a separated flock.

4. The Sheep Leap (known as Boiinnggg! in the Mayfair rules) can be done diagonally as well as orthogonally. I'm not sure why this change was needed, since it's already a very powerful move, but maybe it's just to make it more similar to the other movements that can happen in any of the 8 directions.

5. Spaces are not compressed when doing a Line Push or Diagonal Push. The entire row, column, or diagonal is moved, including spaces. This makes more sense than compressing spaces, although it seems to compound the problems of a separated flock.

6. You must cause at least one sheep to be moved. I.e. you can't use Wool Rule (here renamed to Feeding Trough) to pass. I'm not sure why this was necessary, but it's pretty rare that someone would want to pass anyway.

7. A roll of white on the Sheep Panic die means you get to do a a Lamb Slam with any sheep you want, while in the Mayfair rules it means you do a Ewe Turn (which has been renamed to Herd Instinct here). Seems like a reasonable change, since that 1/6 chance of rotating the herd can be pretty devastating if it happens at the wrong time. It also simplifies the rules for what you can and can't immediately undo.

8. Apparently you are allowed to immediately undo a line push or diagonal push, even if there's no intervening Sheep Panic. I guess this simplifies the rules a bit, but I think it might be a bad idea to allow this kind of undo.

9. Empty rows are ignored for scoring purposes in pastures 2 and 4. Again, an adjustment to deal with separated flocks.

10. Sheep in the row closest to the shearer in pasture 4 always get zero points, but they are not removed from the board. This change makes a lot of sense-- no danger of player elimination.

11. Not really a rule change, but each player has a hand of action cards rather than an action mat and Mutton Buttons. The actions cards are face up, so you can still always see what actions each player has left, though it seems like an obvious variant to keep these hidden to lessen the chance of analysis paralysis.

12. The tie-breaker is the highest sum of the flock token movement points on unused action cards. I like this, because it favors the players who got fewer turns, but it's a little odd because the most powerful options (Sheep Leap and Herd Instinct) are one-point actions.

13. In the 3 player game, you get 3 extra action cards (with 1, 2, and 3 flock token movement points) that just move the flock token, which can be played in addition to your normal action. Each one that you don't use by the end of the game is -2 points. This is similar to the extra action mat in the 2 player Mayfair rules, but without the confusing restriction about having to have fewer extra actions than empty spaces after every turn. Presumably this change is required because they no longer have the reversible scoreboard. I think this might add a little more tactics since it makes it easier to get to a Sheep Panic space when you need it.

14. In the 2 player game, both players get an entire extra hand of action cards that just move the flock token, and you must play one card from each hand on every turn. Again, just an artifact of not having the reversible score board, but it's actually a bit more elegant.

Overall, I think the changes make for a more elegant ruleset, and I think I will try to play this way the next time (if I can find a 9x9 board the right size, and 1/2/3 number cards for the 3-player game). I'm most skeptical about allowing diagonal Sheep Leap and undoing Line Push and Diagonal Push, but I'll try it.


Ademas hay algunos codigos de tablero que vienen reflejados unicamente en las reglas de Zoch, la secuencia y ejecucion de fases tambien difiere algo y algunas cosillas mas. Si tienes la version de Zoch supongo que querras las reglas de la misma.

[Arracataflán]

Muchas gracias.

Tal vez me anime a probar con estas reglas. Comprendo que si son una evolución deben ser mejores pero yo no lo veo tan claro. Básicamente los cambios afectan a que el rebaño no ha de reagruparse, a la existencia de tablero y a la aparición de cartas. Quizá lo de no reagruparse funcione pero me encanta que no tenga tablero y las cartas, en caso de que se ocultaran, me parece excesiva complicación que o lleva a un esfuerzo excesivo para recordar las que han salido o elimina una buena parte del control que se puede tener sobre la partida.

Este juego me gusta por lo fresco que es y no quisiera empeorarlo con mejoras.

A ver si esta tarde tengo ocasión de probarlo y cuento algo.

[Speedro]

No es cosa de animarse o no, las versiones publicadas son distintas. Si tienes la de 999 o la de Fragor lo suyo es usar sus reglas y si tienes la de Zoch, las propias. Cada reglamento hace referencias a componentes de uno u otro, si yo regalo el de Zoch y meto las reglas de la otra versión a quien se lo regale (y es un juego mas que bueno para regalar, un exito seguro) se hara un lio cuando las reglas referencien componentes que no estan presentes o mecanicas no realizables.

En cuanto a gustos personales a mi me gusta mucho mas la version de Zoch, de hecho espere a que bajara de precio para hacerme con la de tablero. Normalmente, (salvo excepciones como Hive) me gusta jugar sobre un tablero, me permite visualizar mejor la situacion y esteticamente me es mas agradable. Aunque, logicamente, es cuestión de gustos.   

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

La verdad es que el juego tiene muy buena pinta, voy a leerme las reglas ahora mismo... funciona bien con 2, 3 y 4 jugadores?

[Speedro]

Yo creo que si funciona bien con cualquier numero de jugadores, tiene un mecanismo de compensacion que va bastante bien sin llegar a ser un jugador dummy (como en Alhambra por ejemplo) soluciona el equilibrio para utilizar todas las piezas.

[Oca]

¿alguien podría tradur las instrucciones para mi? Es que yo de Ingles/Aleman/Frances ni papa y no tengo ni zorra de como se juega.

[Speedro]

Se ha debido de perder el archivo en alguna de las debacles de la bsk. Hasta que se resuban las tienes aqui:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/26061/hastebock_zoch_verlag_es-pdf

Saludos. 

[Oca]

Muchas gracias por el enlace. Descargado.